I have noticed remarkable faith in Allah and resilience in the Palestinians. They have dealt with what you describe for 75 years as a culture, but remain unbroken to a surprising degree. I truly admire their strength and am equally horrified by the Israelis' inhumanity.
Thanks for commenting, Lisa. Whatever the make-up or the source of their resilience, the Palestinians will be incredibly fortunate if they as a group can rely on it (and, of course, each other). I didn’t go into Gorman’s remarks about resiliency in the face of torture (mainly because I was running out of space and didn’t want my essay truncated for those who receive the newsletter via email).
Gorman does note that those who’ve gone through torture sometimes exhibit surprising resilience, recovering in time periods that one would not expect. Genocide being a group trauma, there’s the possibility that the group will recover that much more quickly due to there being internal support. But that’s only if the group manages to stay together — if the genocide is thwarted. I think comments made to the ICJ by South Africa’s legal team yesterday underscored the point that Rafah is the one place where Palestinians can rebuild their culture. If Rafah remains standing, it’s possible that the phoenix can rise.
But in this essay I spend a lot of time looking at how this process is deforming Israelis because, as someone trained in social science, I am keenly interested in how societies devolve in the face of genocide — as the perpetrators. Genocide is not common, so it’s unusual for social scientists to observe one in real time. Social scientists have an enormous opportunity to understand basic group dynamics in a genocidal society by observing what Israelis at large are doing at this time. The soldiers in the IDF are undergoing extraordinary levels of pressure — group pressure from peers, hierarchical pressures from the top down. They will be irrevocably changed.
I’m very concerned about all involved, the Palestinians and the Israelis alike. There’s no going backwards here.
I don't see the Israelis softening. I think they are determined to have all the land, and with the support of us, the UK, etc. they have no reason to stop. I didn't see the statement re Rafah. It's hard to imagine them continuing to exist next to Israel and would they have enough room there?
I agree with your view that the Israelis have no incentive to stop. It’s one of the reasons I’m so harsh in my criticism of the United States and its cooperation in Israel’s pursuit.
I had not checked to see if the arguments presented by SA this week to the ICJ had been put into transcript form, but basically one of the barristers stated that Rafah is basically the Palestinian last stand in order to withstand genocide (that is, against the success of Israel in its goal of dispersing Palestinians, which would lead to the dissolution of the group as a group).
The issue I see is that Israel is the party that made this the situation. Israel was the one that corralled the vast majority of Palestinians into that one corner of the Gaza Strip. Israel created this situation so as to kettle the people there. Now they want to shoot fish in a barrel. If they are prevented from doing so, I agree that both Israel and the Palestnians are at loggerheads from this point out, precisely because there’s so much pressure inside Israel to resettle Gaza with new settler colonization and so average Israelis would not tolerate having that dream thwarted. So I’m not sure how the leadership will resolve that if Israel is not allowed to liquidate the population. But Israel is the one that’s put Israel in this situation.
I feel like they aren't really thinking ahead; they just want them gone. So depraved. And it seems like the ICJ is pretty useless in terms of calling it an actual genocide or stopping it once they do.
While there are Jews protesting, it seems like the majority still support whatever Israel wants to do. So that can't help but make people angry and distrustful of them. They're actually causing the antisemitism that is their #1 accusation.
The Israelis blocking and destroying the food shipments are shameless beyond belief. And our government as well.
I think it's important to maintain a distinction between Jewish people as people and the Israeli government, or even Israeli society. This is because, of course, more than Jewish people comprise Israeli society; and many Jewish people are in the diaspora and are not even Israeli. So the distinction is important so as to separate the conflation that Zionism itself attempts to forge, which is that Israel is the symbolic representation of world Jewry. We have to keep those two things separate in order to forestall or defeat the antisemitism that's inherent in the conflation.
I take much heart in the overrepresentation of Jewish people in the pro-Palestinian protests, at least here in the States on college campuses. There is much to be said for groups such as Jewish Voice for Peace being in the forefront (and you'll see that many Zionists denounce JVP as "self-hating" or traitors in some sense). I would think that their presence would go toward reducing that anger and distrust of which you speak. In fact, it should alert people to see that not all Jewish people believe the same things and that there is common cause to be had.
The US is more concerned about being found complicit (or possibly, at this late date, as conspirators) by legal authorities, which is why White House spokespeople keep coming out and denying Israel's genocide. To that, I'll point out that denial is the final stage of genocide, according to experts, and runs throughout its course.
It all seems very strange. This is the first time we've had social media reporting closely on what's going on with one of our atrocious attacks. I can only hope this eventually has a massive effect on the way out government deals with other countries, but I can't see through the fog of the coming election and things won't change quickly with the Republicans so crazed.
I have noticed remarkable faith in Allah and resilience in the Palestinians. They have dealt with what you describe for 75 years as a culture, but remain unbroken to a surprising degree. I truly admire their strength and am equally horrified by the Israelis' inhumanity.
Thanks for commenting, Lisa. Whatever the make-up or the source of their resilience, the Palestinians will be incredibly fortunate if they as a group can rely on it (and, of course, each other). I didn’t go into Gorman’s remarks about resiliency in the face of torture (mainly because I was running out of space and didn’t want my essay truncated for those who receive the newsletter via email).
Gorman does note that those who’ve gone through torture sometimes exhibit surprising resilience, recovering in time periods that one would not expect. Genocide being a group trauma, there’s the possibility that the group will recover that much more quickly due to there being internal support. But that’s only if the group manages to stay together — if the genocide is thwarted. I think comments made to the ICJ by South Africa’s legal team yesterday underscored the point that Rafah is the one place where Palestinians can rebuild their culture. If Rafah remains standing, it’s possible that the phoenix can rise.
But in this essay I spend a lot of time looking at how this process is deforming Israelis because, as someone trained in social science, I am keenly interested in how societies devolve in the face of genocide — as the perpetrators. Genocide is not common, so it’s unusual for social scientists to observe one in real time. Social scientists have an enormous opportunity to understand basic group dynamics in a genocidal society by observing what Israelis at large are doing at this time. The soldiers in the IDF are undergoing extraordinary levels of pressure — group pressure from peers, hierarchical pressures from the top down. They will be irrevocably changed.
I’m very concerned about all involved, the Palestinians and the Israelis alike. There’s no going backwards here.
I don't see the Israelis softening. I think they are determined to have all the land, and with the support of us, the UK, etc. they have no reason to stop. I didn't see the statement re Rafah. It's hard to imagine them continuing to exist next to Israel and would they have enough room there?
I agree with your view that the Israelis have no incentive to stop. It’s one of the reasons I’m so harsh in my criticism of the United States and its cooperation in Israel’s pursuit.
I had not checked to see if the arguments presented by SA this week to the ICJ had been put into transcript form, but basically one of the barristers stated that Rafah is basically the Palestinian last stand in order to withstand genocide (that is, against the success of Israel in its goal of dispersing Palestinians, which would lead to the dissolution of the group as a group).
The issue I see is that Israel is the party that made this the situation. Israel was the one that corralled the vast majority of Palestinians into that one corner of the Gaza Strip. Israel created this situation so as to kettle the people there. Now they want to shoot fish in a barrel. If they are prevented from doing so, I agree that both Israel and the Palestnians are at loggerheads from this point out, precisely because there’s so much pressure inside Israel to resettle Gaza with new settler colonization and so average Israelis would not tolerate having that dream thwarted. So I’m not sure how the leadership will resolve that if Israel is not allowed to liquidate the population. But Israel is the one that’s put Israel in this situation.
I feel like they aren't really thinking ahead; they just want them gone. So depraved. And it seems like the ICJ is pretty useless in terms of calling it an actual genocide or stopping it once they do.
While there are Jews protesting, it seems like the majority still support whatever Israel wants to do. So that can't help but make people angry and distrustful of them. They're actually causing the antisemitism that is their #1 accusation.
The Israelis blocking and destroying the food shipments are shameless beyond belief. And our government as well.
I think it's important to maintain a distinction between Jewish people as people and the Israeli government, or even Israeli society. This is because, of course, more than Jewish people comprise Israeli society; and many Jewish people are in the diaspora and are not even Israeli. So the distinction is important so as to separate the conflation that Zionism itself attempts to forge, which is that Israel is the symbolic representation of world Jewry. We have to keep those two things separate in order to forestall or defeat the antisemitism that's inherent in the conflation.
I take much heart in the overrepresentation of Jewish people in the pro-Palestinian protests, at least here in the States on college campuses. There is much to be said for groups such as Jewish Voice for Peace being in the forefront (and you'll see that many Zionists denounce JVP as "self-hating" or traitors in some sense). I would think that their presence would go toward reducing that anger and distrust of which you speak. In fact, it should alert people to see that not all Jewish people believe the same things and that there is common cause to be had.
The US is more concerned about being found complicit (or possibly, at this late date, as conspirators) by legal authorities, which is why White House spokespeople keep coming out and denying Israel's genocide. To that, I'll point out that denial is the final stage of genocide, according to experts, and runs throughout its course.
It all seems very strange. This is the first time we've had social media reporting closely on what's going on with one of our atrocious attacks. I can only hope this eventually has a massive effect on the way out government deals with other countries, but I can't see through the fog of the coming election and things won't change quickly with the Republicans so crazed.