Last month, CNN featured an exposé on the Sde Teiman black site in Israel where Palestinian prisoners are being tortured, abused, and subjected to humiliating and debilitating conditions.
I don’t think we have to resort to theories about “mass delusion” to understand the Israeli mindset. Their problem is a genocidal mindset. They know exactly what they’re supporting and they’re not shy about proclaiming it, because they know the US has their back to protect them from any consequences. After all, the US did the exact same thing to its indigenous population and no one cared then and they don’t care now. Our media almost never reports on violence against Palestinians, and even when it does, the common sentiment is that they deserved it. As I’ve said before, Biden’s support for Israel is not a hidden fact. He and the other leaders of the Democratic Party have made it abundantly clear that a pro-Palestinian stance is dumb and you’re dumb for supporting it (using the collective “you” here). At least Trump is open about his racism and doesn’t hide behind a facade of superficial civility.
I think we’re speaking to different things here, and I note that your reply also has more than one focus. Part of my “project” here (very loose quotes) is to understand what is going on in Israeli society as it descends into genocide. I’m looking at it, admittedly, from the outside looking in, but also I’m looking from a sociological and cultural perspective. I am harshly critical of the policies and actions of the Israeli government and its leadership; but I am trying to critically gauge how Israeli culture is metamorphosizing. It’s not often that those in social science get a front- or second-row seat to an unfolding genocide, so I’m trying to delve into it.
At the same time, I’m using a lens that I had already developed for examining MAGA, which I identified as a cult many years ago. While the US has harbored many cults in its storied history, none had before taken control of the apparatus of one of the two major political parties, with the attendant ability to mass organize and mobilize. But we’ve seen it outside of the US for sure, in the distant past, in Mussolini’s Italy and Hitler’s Germany, among other places. It’s a culture-wide atmosphere that grips the populace; and, from what I’ve been able to tell, the common denominator is a belief in the superiority of one’s group. That’s the toxic element that animates the ‘mass delusion’ as I’m terming it.
Turning back to Biden and the Democrats, that’s a different tack and issue altogether, because what’s going on there is NOT based on a sense of group superiority (aka collective narcissism). It’s something else, and I’m not quite sure exactly what it is but it’s truly and urgently prevailing upon me to figure out what is driving that behavior. It’s highly (self-) destructive and threatens to eat American democracy from the inside out.
I think we’re trying to do the same thing (ie put what’s going on into historical and sociological context). I guess I’m not fond of referring to bad /dangerous ideologies as “cults,” since I feel that has no meaning. If anything it suggests that adherents are “crazy” or “brainwashed” so we can’t possibly make sense of what is happening because the people in question are legally insane. I think what’s going on with the really hardcore MAGA types (as opposed to vote red no matter who types) is part of the usual “politics as team sport” thing combined with an extreme fandom/stan mentality. Trump is fundamentally an entertainer above all, and he knows how to work the media in the way that career politicians like Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton will never be able to do. He has spent 40 plus years building a personal media brand, which created the illusion that he’s a master businessman and negotiator. The fact that he has been bankrupt several times before doesn’t matter, since his brand image does all the heavy lifting. Certain elements in American conservatism, including the Christian nationalist and isolationist homeschooling movements dovetail nicely into the MAGA movement. It also helps that both of these movements have been shock troopers for the GOP for at least thirty years. Say what you want about Trump, but he gives his followers plenty of red meat to keep them coming back for more. The same can’t be said for of Democrats, where the strategy seems to be shaming voters into compliance.
To go back to the state of affairs in Israel, the genocidal tendencies of the state were always baked into the Zionist movement. Theodor Herzl explicitly said that Zionism was a colonial and imperialist movement, and used that fact to gain backers in countries like France and Great Britain. To a certain extent, the sort of classical European colonialism/imperialism that Herzl knew ended after World War II, but Israel never renounced it. Israelis understand that their project required genocide and colonialism to succeed. They would say that Western critics are being hypocritical, since their countries did the exact same thing, so what’s the problem? I feel like one reason why criticism of Israel has to be muted is precisely because they’re doing in real time what had been done one hundred plus years ago. If you start questioning what’s going on in Israel, you might start questioning other things, like the sacred foundations of “our democracy.” But I also think Westerners want to give the benefit of the doubt to a country that appears to be look liberal and Western. None of this is the result of cult thinking, but it is the result of living in a society where slavery and apartheid can coexist with liberal democracy, so long as the people who actually count (the real “We the People”) aren’t affected and benefit from this arrangement.
Man, this ended up being way longer than I intended.
Hi again, Leah. Sorry to have taken a bit to get back to your comment. (It is a fine length! Thank you for being so thoughtful in your reply.)
To address your first point, we disagree on the term 'cult'. I realize that many people feel the same way you do about the term, but I have put in countless hours over the last handful of years gaining detailed information about what makes a cult a cult (or, if you will, a "high intensity" or "high devotion" group). There are structural elements that distinguish it from ordinary groups, telltale signs that, when in combination, indicate a poisonous atmosphere that can be pressed by malevolent types into antisocial acts. (Of course, there are almost certainly "benevolent" cults as well, but we don't hear about them because they don't flame out in a homicidal or suicidal act.)
As it happens, I began that research in an attempt to better understand MAGA. And I was one of the very few five or so years ago who was publicly and persistently calling MAGA a cult. I had many people at my previous platform deny the idea altogether, and many more questioned why I felt the need to describe the movement in such a way. I told them: I don't use the term in an effort to insult or demean. In fact, it's in an attempt not only to understand but to anticipate. If we remained blind to the tendencies in MAGA -- the fact that it was an emotional movement, not a typical, rationalist one -- we would not be able to respond to what it would do in the future. We would always be scratching our heads and getting sideswiped. It took January 6 for most of my critics to finally come over to my side, but even last year there were some people still questioning the need for the label, precisely because they themselves couldn't get away from the idea that "cult" is inherently denigrating. I, on the other hand, am using the term in a sociological way, in an effort to be precise.
As for brainwashing relieving people of their culpability, I guess I do not entirely subscribe to that view. I mean, we had trials at Nuremberg where soldiers routinely stated that they were just following orders; and, as I understand the nature of folie a deux (i.e., shared delusion disorder), Nazi Germany was under just such a sway. The soldiers were still responsible for their individual actions. The genocidaires in Rwanda were still responsible for their individual actions, despite being influenced by radio broadcasts and peer pressure. The IDF soldiers are all responsible for what they're doing in Gaza, the settlers for what they're doing in the West Bank, and the citizens of Israel for providing the emotional fuel for driving their genocide forward. That elements of a cult are present does not absolve these people of their actions.
As for your assessment of Trump et al., I don't disagree with you. It's remarkable, really, how many authoritarians in the 20th & 21st centuries have had backgrounds in media, advertising or entertainment. I believe that throughline deserves its own examination. All of those fields feature a fundamental fooling of the audience.
This reply is also getting a bit lengthy, so I'll try to draw it to a close here by saying that I again agree with you about people in the West being taken in by appearances. And, of course, liberal democracy can't actually coexist with exploitative oppression, but the appearance of it can. Have you read Charles W. Mills? He explores the paradox of Rousseauean social contract (just as you state) by highlighting that the subjectivity of the individual in Rousseau's theoretical worldview is intrinsically set opposite the subjugation of objectified peoples. But this relationship is obscured by ideals of freedom and consent of the governed, and so the theoretical subjects blind themselves to the realities in which they actually find themselves constituted. It's quite an interesting book, _The Racial Contract_, which came out in 1997. I very much recommend it.
Very helpful in understanding what possesses the Israelis do do this genocide. Mass psychosis and delusion fits. They are possessed indeed. Does not explain US / Biden regime collusion tho -- even more sinister.
Thanks, and you’re right: my analysis or speculation doesn’t cover what’s going on with Biden and the Democratic coalition. If I had to put my finger on it, I would say that it’s more to do, in that case, with deference to the leader’s wishes. This seems to be a phenomenon that transcends strictures and structures, because despite all of the standards built in that ordinarily would induce discussion and deliberation over such weighty matters, Biden’s discouragement of dissent in the State Department and elsewhere in the government contributed to a culture of silence that gagged any actual input that could have altered certain aspects of decision-making. Biden simply didn’t want to brook any disagreement, and the entire government culture adapted to Biden’s desires.
I don’t have a deeper analysis than that at the moment. I’ll have to think more deeply about the nature of the leader in human groups and how that particular focal point warps not just discourse but perception. Certainly the phenomenon goes all the way back to ancient tribes and medicine men; but also it figures, funnily enough, in the philosophy of advocates of propaganda (not just Edward Bernays but also Walter Lippmann, an influential figure in the early 20th century who dedicated an entire section of his examination of public opinion on the leader aspect).
But I would be speaking “out of school” to attempt to apply such ideas to the Biden situation. For one thing, I’ve realized over the last year that I really don’t know that much about Biden the person. I need to rectify that. I, like so many, am just working off of images, what’s presented to the people. I realize that’s woefully inadequate.
I don’t think we have to resort to theories about “mass delusion” to understand the Israeli mindset. Their problem is a genocidal mindset. They know exactly what they’re supporting and they’re not shy about proclaiming it, because they know the US has their back to protect them from any consequences. After all, the US did the exact same thing to its indigenous population and no one cared then and they don’t care now. Our media almost never reports on violence against Palestinians, and even when it does, the common sentiment is that they deserved it. As I’ve said before, Biden’s support for Israel is not a hidden fact. He and the other leaders of the Democratic Party have made it abundantly clear that a pro-Palestinian stance is dumb and you’re dumb for supporting it (using the collective “you” here). At least Trump is open about his racism and doesn’t hide behind a facade of superficial civility.
I think we’re speaking to different things here, and I note that your reply also has more than one focus. Part of my “project” here (very loose quotes) is to understand what is going on in Israeli society as it descends into genocide. I’m looking at it, admittedly, from the outside looking in, but also I’m looking from a sociological and cultural perspective. I am harshly critical of the policies and actions of the Israeli government and its leadership; but I am trying to critically gauge how Israeli culture is metamorphosizing. It’s not often that those in social science get a front- or second-row seat to an unfolding genocide, so I’m trying to delve into it.
At the same time, I’m using a lens that I had already developed for examining MAGA, which I identified as a cult many years ago. While the US has harbored many cults in its storied history, none had before taken control of the apparatus of one of the two major political parties, with the attendant ability to mass organize and mobilize. But we’ve seen it outside of the US for sure, in the distant past, in Mussolini’s Italy and Hitler’s Germany, among other places. It’s a culture-wide atmosphere that grips the populace; and, from what I’ve been able to tell, the common denominator is a belief in the superiority of one’s group. That’s the toxic element that animates the ‘mass delusion’ as I’m terming it.
Turning back to Biden and the Democrats, that’s a different tack and issue altogether, because what’s going on there is NOT based on a sense of group superiority (aka collective narcissism). It’s something else, and I’m not quite sure exactly what it is but it’s truly and urgently prevailing upon me to figure out what is driving that behavior. It’s highly (self-) destructive and threatens to eat American democracy from the inside out.
I think we’re trying to do the same thing (ie put what’s going on into historical and sociological context). I guess I’m not fond of referring to bad /dangerous ideologies as “cults,” since I feel that has no meaning. If anything it suggests that adherents are “crazy” or “brainwashed” so we can’t possibly make sense of what is happening because the people in question are legally insane. I think what’s going on with the really hardcore MAGA types (as opposed to vote red no matter who types) is part of the usual “politics as team sport” thing combined with an extreme fandom/stan mentality. Trump is fundamentally an entertainer above all, and he knows how to work the media in the way that career politicians like Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton will never be able to do. He has spent 40 plus years building a personal media brand, which created the illusion that he’s a master businessman and negotiator. The fact that he has been bankrupt several times before doesn’t matter, since his brand image does all the heavy lifting. Certain elements in American conservatism, including the Christian nationalist and isolationist homeschooling movements dovetail nicely into the MAGA movement. It also helps that both of these movements have been shock troopers for the GOP for at least thirty years. Say what you want about Trump, but he gives his followers plenty of red meat to keep them coming back for more. The same can’t be said for of Democrats, where the strategy seems to be shaming voters into compliance.
To go back to the state of affairs in Israel, the genocidal tendencies of the state were always baked into the Zionist movement. Theodor Herzl explicitly said that Zionism was a colonial and imperialist movement, and used that fact to gain backers in countries like France and Great Britain. To a certain extent, the sort of classical European colonialism/imperialism that Herzl knew ended after World War II, but Israel never renounced it. Israelis understand that their project required genocide and colonialism to succeed. They would say that Western critics are being hypocritical, since their countries did the exact same thing, so what’s the problem? I feel like one reason why criticism of Israel has to be muted is precisely because they’re doing in real time what had been done one hundred plus years ago. If you start questioning what’s going on in Israel, you might start questioning other things, like the sacred foundations of “our democracy.” But I also think Westerners want to give the benefit of the doubt to a country that appears to be look liberal and Western. None of this is the result of cult thinking, but it is the result of living in a society where slavery and apartheid can coexist with liberal democracy, so long as the people who actually count (the real “We the People”) aren’t affected and benefit from this arrangement.
Man, this ended up being way longer than I intended.
Hi again, Leah. Sorry to have taken a bit to get back to your comment. (It is a fine length! Thank you for being so thoughtful in your reply.)
To address your first point, we disagree on the term 'cult'. I realize that many people feel the same way you do about the term, but I have put in countless hours over the last handful of years gaining detailed information about what makes a cult a cult (or, if you will, a "high intensity" or "high devotion" group). There are structural elements that distinguish it from ordinary groups, telltale signs that, when in combination, indicate a poisonous atmosphere that can be pressed by malevolent types into antisocial acts. (Of course, there are almost certainly "benevolent" cults as well, but we don't hear about them because they don't flame out in a homicidal or suicidal act.)
As it happens, I began that research in an attempt to better understand MAGA. And I was one of the very few five or so years ago who was publicly and persistently calling MAGA a cult. I had many people at my previous platform deny the idea altogether, and many more questioned why I felt the need to describe the movement in such a way. I told them: I don't use the term in an effort to insult or demean. In fact, it's in an attempt not only to understand but to anticipate. If we remained blind to the tendencies in MAGA -- the fact that it was an emotional movement, not a typical, rationalist one -- we would not be able to respond to what it would do in the future. We would always be scratching our heads and getting sideswiped. It took January 6 for most of my critics to finally come over to my side, but even last year there were some people still questioning the need for the label, precisely because they themselves couldn't get away from the idea that "cult" is inherently denigrating. I, on the other hand, am using the term in a sociological way, in an effort to be precise.
As for brainwashing relieving people of their culpability, I guess I do not entirely subscribe to that view. I mean, we had trials at Nuremberg where soldiers routinely stated that they were just following orders; and, as I understand the nature of folie a deux (i.e., shared delusion disorder), Nazi Germany was under just such a sway. The soldiers were still responsible for their individual actions. The genocidaires in Rwanda were still responsible for their individual actions, despite being influenced by radio broadcasts and peer pressure. The IDF soldiers are all responsible for what they're doing in Gaza, the settlers for what they're doing in the West Bank, and the citizens of Israel for providing the emotional fuel for driving their genocide forward. That elements of a cult are present does not absolve these people of their actions.
As for your assessment of Trump et al., I don't disagree with you. It's remarkable, really, how many authoritarians in the 20th & 21st centuries have had backgrounds in media, advertising or entertainment. I believe that throughline deserves its own examination. All of those fields feature a fundamental fooling of the audience.
This reply is also getting a bit lengthy, so I'll try to draw it to a close here by saying that I again agree with you about people in the West being taken in by appearances. And, of course, liberal democracy can't actually coexist with exploitative oppression, but the appearance of it can. Have you read Charles W. Mills? He explores the paradox of Rousseauean social contract (just as you state) by highlighting that the subjectivity of the individual in Rousseau's theoretical worldview is intrinsically set opposite the subjugation of objectified peoples. But this relationship is obscured by ideals of freedom and consent of the governed, and so the theoretical subjects blind themselves to the realities in which they actually find themselves constituted. It's quite an interesting book, _The Racial Contract_, which came out in 1997. I very much recommend it.
Very helpful in understanding what possesses the Israelis do do this genocide. Mass psychosis and delusion fits. They are possessed indeed. Does not explain US / Biden regime collusion tho -- even more sinister.
Thanks, and you’re right: my analysis or speculation doesn’t cover what’s going on with Biden and the Democratic coalition. If I had to put my finger on it, I would say that it’s more to do, in that case, with deference to the leader’s wishes. This seems to be a phenomenon that transcends strictures and structures, because despite all of the standards built in that ordinarily would induce discussion and deliberation over such weighty matters, Biden’s discouragement of dissent in the State Department and elsewhere in the government contributed to a culture of silence that gagged any actual input that could have altered certain aspects of decision-making. Biden simply didn’t want to brook any disagreement, and the entire government culture adapted to Biden’s desires.
I don’t have a deeper analysis than that at the moment. I’ll have to think more deeply about the nature of the leader in human groups and how that particular focal point warps not just discourse but perception. Certainly the phenomenon goes all the way back to ancient tribes and medicine men; but also it figures, funnily enough, in the philosophy of advocates of propaganda (not just Edward Bernays but also Walter Lippmann, an influential figure in the early 20th century who dedicated an entire section of his examination of public opinion on the leader aspect).
But I would be speaking “out of school” to attempt to apply such ideas to the Biden situation. For one thing, I’ve realized over the last year that I really don’t know that much about Biden the person. I need to rectify that. I, like so many, am just working off of images, what’s presented to the people. I realize that’s woefully inadequate.